Right On! It seems to me that senior non-operating policymaking personnel at today's transit and rail systems need a crash-course in Railfanning 101 from their HR departments. Not for the purpose of becoming one, of course, but for the purpose of understanding that 99.9999 percent of us dearly love this country, our neighbors, and our families, and would use every means at our disposal to report an unsafe or potentially-dangerous act or situation that we see during our 'fanning activities to the proper authorities.
S**t like this proves that the terrorists have won - photographers are the eyes and ears of the railroad - just ask any RR employee - we know more than they do!
I don't mind being questioned by various authorities about taking train photos. Just don't stop me from taking photos of trains. As a matter of fact, railfans just might notice something wrong on the railroad and bring this to the attention of the proper authorities
I think this is a useless law that compromises my freedom as a citizen riding a public transit system. I believe it will waste money, be ignored by many, and create an air of distrust between the transit system and those who ride it.
What liberty will they next make illegal, for law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens with either the foolish or false guise of protecting us?
In the immortal words of Benjamin Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
We enjoy and appreicate the movement of a time gone by. The scale and size of these monter machines is a thing of beauty and art and as such should be protected from censure
I'm from Virginia. I just bought a hideously expensive camera for my own pleasure. If I come to NYC, it will be for a vacation and it will be to take pictures. The proposed ban makes me more inclined to vacation somewhere else. If NYC institutes bans in such inappropriate public places, who is to say someone won't want to take my camera for taking a picture of the Empire State Building? Why risk it? I'll go to Yellowstone and take pictures of gysers.
Dave Head
In our world today, the 1st Amendment is constantly being attacked by our government, with laws provoking our freedoms. Something we love doing shouldn't be taken away from us as well. I just started taking pictures in February 2004 and plan to continue but with this ban, I might not be able to build a huge directory of New York City Photos like NYCSubway.org, that I can look back at when I'm older and say, I remember this now, it's that. Pictures bring back memories and tell stories for the future generation. Without these sacred images of the constantly changing New York City Transit System, there are no stories for the future generation of Railfans. The decision between allowing and disallowing photography is now, the future depends on this historic moment and so does the future generation of NYC Railfans.
You might wish to know that the UK aiport police have recently begun to issue aircaft enthusiasts at UK airports official IDs to enhance airport security, many enthusiasts probably know more about the airport operations than the police ever will and could more readily notice anything untoward! What a great idea, an all important "extra pair of eyes" - does appear odd that any security agency would not appreciate extra help? To reiterate a previous comment, when in KC last year a Railway Special Agent commented that he liked to see guys with cameras, videos etc as that probably meant anyone who should not have been there, from a vandal to a graffiti artist, would probably move on rather than be photographed "in action". Think on authority!!
Another stupid law that will ruin the fun and enjoyment I have railfaning with my 6 year old son. Dont just sign the petition, Call your Senators and Representatives and let your voice be heard!
the folks who are spending the taxpayers dollars to dream up stupid responses to the Islamasist threat like "no railroad photography" should be fired for wasting those hard earned dollars and for failing to come up with REAL responses like PORT security.
I totally oppose the ban on rail photography and suggest any operator who does not permit it should be boycotted so that they loose the revenue. If I did that personally it would be several 100 $ per year. However I found the following on ABC:
Suspicious activity along the New York-Philadelphia-Washing ton rail corridor — along with the discovery of a concealed infrared electronic device on the tracks near a rail yard in Philadelphia — has triggered federal and regional investigations, ABCNEWS has learned.
While authorities say they do not want to unnecessarily scare commuters, they say the findings fit the pattern of terrorists casing the rail lines for a possible attack. The devastating train bombings in Madrid, Spain, have forced them to take all suspicious activity seriously, they say.
The New Jersey attorney general's office is investigating at least seven instances in the last week of suspected surveillance along New Jersey Transit commuter lines leading into Philadelphia, Trenton and New York City. The incidents include the filming of trains and rail lines by a number of people in an apparently systematic way, authorities say.
The New Jersey Transit trains use the same track as Amtrak's New York-to-Washington run.
Infrared Device Found
In a separate investigation, the FBI's Philadelphia field office is probing the discovery of an infrared sensor that was carefully concealed along the track bed of a Pennsylvania Southeast Transit Authority line.
The device — a commercially available wireless infrared transmitter made for home security use — was discovered, spraypainted black and tucked neatly into the trackside ballast, by a conductor. Such devices transmit a signal when something cuts across their infrared beam.
According to a police report obtained by ABCNEWS, the sensor had the potential to be used as a triggering device for a terrorist bomb. "This sensor could have functioned as designed by sending a radio signal
Welcome to post 911 America what a joke.No one except a guy with a really big machine gun is going to tell me what I can take pictures of.They can have my Camera when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!
At What Price Should Freedom be Sacrificed for Safety?
Freedom unfortunately requires a degree of risk.
Yet most Americans believe you can have safety and still be 100% free. This is not true. Freedom comes at a price. Politicians will tell you otherwise, afterall, that is what the majority of Americans want to hear. It borders between being naive and ignorant.
Restricting our freedoms and trying to create a police state is exactly the goal is of terrorism. We must learn to live with risk if we are to remain free. We cannot continue down this path. To do so means only those in power win because eventually a police state could exist.
They (politicians) are willing to take my camera and thus my fundamental freedom to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" but the majority of them won't dare try to take my gun. Maybe its because guns have a lobby (no problem there, that's democrcacy). Its time freedom has a lobby too, and its called going on with life.
Finally - our forefathers once tangled with the same question. Though in a different context. For those who truly understand this nation's history. (And most people don't anymore) There was a thing called the "French & Indian War." The colonists asked England at the time to supply troops to protect us (see "Safety") from the French and their Native-American allies. England gladly helped out. But there was a high cost - so England started to tax the colonists on everything and gave them no voice in Parliament or with the King. This taxation without representation was a form of lost freedom. Hence we then had the Revolution.
We can never be safe if we want to remain free. We just need to be prepared to deal with whatever happens.
Jeff Turner
5/28/2004
Please, leave us railfans alone.
We are doing nothing wrong but enjoying our hobby, and harming nobody. Besides we provide extra security without being paid, people will think twice before doing something stupid.
Seriously, do you think banning photography of trains and transit vehicles is gonna eliminate terrorisim?
It amazes me how so many so called "Americans" continuiously allow the government to take away all our freedom. My heart goes out to famlies who have lost loved ones to terrorist acts, or lost children to other atrocities. This does not make it right to use terrorisim, or "it'll save the children" as excuses to remove our liberties one by one. It's a sad fact that some children will not live to be adults, and some adults and children will be killed at the hands of others, but when saving the lives of a small portion of people costs the entire population their liberties is the cost worth it? I luckily have not lost a loved one to any of these issues and as such some who have may not agree. I myself would not want to live in a country like this or to raise my children to live in a country with such restrictions & bans. It's the exact reason this country was founded in the first place.
I love this country but when things are so controlled that you cannot take pictures of certian things, I can't say I'd want to live here anymore.
I have been part of the the Management Team at one of the Largeest Commuter RR's in the USA for over 20 years. I also happen to be an avid railfan which is why I got into this industry in the first place. There is NO risk to any transit property posed by the railfan photographers who abide by the mostly common sense rules of safety and general decorum while on transit or railroad property. Anyone who stands around for hours with camera bags full of film and large lenses is NOT doing reconn work for a terrorist group intent on doing the system harm. In addition, Grand Central terminal in NYC has a sensible policy on photography by the visiting public. As long as you are in the public areas of GCT that are open, you may take all the pictures of the facility that you want. It is, after all, an historic building which has been beautifully restored and as it should, be shown off world-wide through the pictures and images recorded by NYC visitors and residents alike as an architectural gem and marvel of transit functionality, not something that should be shrouded in the darkness of a ridiculous photo-ban. NJ Transit has the opposite policy for it's restored Hoboken Terminal. No one, even 2 friends waiting in the indoor waiting room can take pictures of one another without being forcibly stopped by overzealous police. As a result, no one will go there to admire that wonderfully restored building.
As proven by railfans who have visited the Soviet bloc nations pre-1989, even an authoritarian gov't cannot stop ALL photography. This is the USA, supposedly the leader of the free world that democracy and freedom seekers aspire to emulate. What kind of message does this send to the rest of the world about us?
I'm probably the only kid who actually takes an interst in the nyc subway system and this is just pointless and unconstitutional,WE ARE RAILFANS NOT INSANE TERORISTS!!!!!
I disagree about the ban, tourist always taking photos or taking a movie to remember thier visit to NYC, by putting this ban will make people to complain and remove the ban, MTA had the stuipd idea ever they have. I think this should be done by Mayor not MTA!
Many persons who photograph railroads are fans who are very supportive of the railroads and will go out of their way to report any suspicious activity they observe. Also, such restrictions as are being imposed, and already in place are further restrictions on our personal freedoms, which we in the US are so proud of.
Excuse my poor english I'm live in Quebec City. We will loosed freedom and right the published. I'm hope you have understand. Thank you a lot. Continous for freedom.
I was employed by the railroad for almost 50 years,we saw hundreds of rail photographers around,never a problem,their the best security a raolroad can have!
